Mithra Stevens in Conversation with Co-Founder of Where’s The Frame, Maribelle Bierens
Where’s The Frame? (WTF) is an entirely online gallery founded by two Central Saint Martins Graduates, Maribelle Bierens and Gianina Ivodie. Promoting new and emerging artists to a global audience, WTF works with over 200 artists worldwide.
Eager to learn more, we spoke with Maribelle about starting a business during the pandemic, their business model, and the role of social media.
“Starting during the pandemic was a good time, strangely, because there was a lot of acceptance and space to start something online.”
Mithra Stevens: When did you and Gianina first come up with the idea for WTF and how did you go about starting the business?
Maribelle Bierens: I started thinking about doing something as soon as I walked into the Central Saint Martins building. I moved here for the research program and attending CSM was like ‘living art.’ It sparked starting something with my business partner. Both of our backgrounds are very academic and being at CSM made us realise that there are so many people that don’t have access to this part of the art world but they want to be part of the next generation of the arts so we started to think about how we could showcase them.
MS: The name is definitely distinctive, how did you come up with it?
MB: The name comes from the text Inside the White Cube by Brian O’Doherty. The first chapter is titled Where Did the Frame Go? and we started talking about this because when you’re part of the contemporary art world you see a lot of installations and sculptures, but now at CSM, RCA (Royal College of Art) and Slade you see so many more painters. This traditional medium is still alive and kicking, the frame hasn’t gone anywhere, so we decided to base our name on this concept and shorten it to Where’s the Frame Gallery.
MS: Did your business model change at all from what you initially wanted to do? How did you navigate starting a business during the pandemic?
MB: Yes, our initial idea was to have pop-ups to showcase CSM artists because that is what we knew. We started to work on the business more seriously in our second year, and after speaking about it for months, we started an Instagram account and began asking artists for permission to post their images. It became clear that Covid was not going to be a two month thing and that our pop-up idea was not going to happen in the near future. We didn’t start as a gallery that was online, but we started to think online. We began asking ourselves, what are the advantages of online? There are clear disadvantages of working online, you cannot really be in the space with an artwork, it’s not the same experience. But the advantages are being able to foreground the artists, you can write text, there can be more context, you can reach so many more people and you can continue doing it even during a pandemic when people are at home.
Sian Fan. Photo by Alina zum Hebel.
We came up with the idea to do the artist’s photoshoots, have them front and centre, and then have the artworks and text. In a gallery, the artist is not usually there unless it’s for an opening but online you can showcase the artist above all else. Because we thought digitally, there were more opportunities to do things in a different way. It came out of necessity but I’m very happy because it made it possible for us to work with artists from all over the world.
Hee Jyung Kim. Photo by Alina zum Hebel.
MS: Your website mentions that you’re based in London and Jakarta. Are your clients mostly in London or do you also have an international client base?
MB: My business partner is from Jakarta and she lives there. We sell to clients all over the world. A fair portion of them are from London and Europe but we sell to the US and Jakarta as well. It’s all growing out of thin air and the dream is that we can support more and more up-and-coming artists and sell to people who really care and want to support early career artists.
MS: Are your clients generally adding to established collections or are they first time collectors?
MB: It’s definitely a mix of clientele. Because we work online and cater to new collectors, we decided to set up partnerships with artists worldwide so that we could look for something specific if a client should approach us with something in mind. We set up an art matchmaking service, a collecting concierge, where we have partnerships with 200 artists worldwide and we know what they have in their studios at the time. We have an online questionnaire for clients to fill out and we take their answers into consideration and suggest a few artists that fit their brief. This is something we do alongside the virtual shows to reach a wider audience.
Source: Where’s The Frame Website.
MS: Seeing as you primarily reach people and artists through Instagram, how do you feel about new forms of media such as TikTok and the Metaverse?
MB: TikTok is time-consuming but I think that it’s an excellent way of showcasing new art. It is really just the time that limits us from being active on it. We have thought about Meta but we aren’t sure how we feel about it yet.
Maribelle in Thomas Hjelm’s Studio. Photo by Alina zum Hebel.
Thomas Hjelm. Photo by Alina zum Hebel.
MS: Do you sell any time based medium works or NFTs?
MB: We are very early adopters of selling NFTs–we started selling them in March 2021. As an art historian, it makes sense that this is the next step because of the dematerialisation of art and conceptual art. Take for example Tino Sehgal where you can buy one of his situations and own the idea even though he doesn’t allow any documentation or written record of the work. I’m happy that NFTs are allowing artists to include resale royalties and track provenance.
MS: I have seen artist Salomé Wu at both Studio West Gallery and WTF. Do any of your artists sign a contract to sell exclusively through you?
MB: A lot of spaces working with artists that have graduated in the last four years all work in non-exclusionary terms. We’re the same and it’s important to us that none of our artists are with us exclusively. We want them to be able to make the most out of every opportunity that they create for themselves and we’re not going to restrict them.
Salomé Wu. Photo by Alina zum Hebel.
Salomé Wu’s Studio. Photo by Alina zum Hebel.
MS: Do you want your artists to stay with your gallery throughout their careers?
MB: I hope so. My ideal model is the ‘Leo Castelli Model.’ He would find artists at the earliest stage of their careers and then they would grow together. Robert Rauschenberg and Jasper Johns had their first exhibitions with Castelli. He was a part of the creation of abstract expressionism, minimalism, and pop art, fostering these movements and the artists’ careers. This is the dream–that with some artists you’re there from the beginning and you grow together.
K Blick. Photo by Alina zum Hebel.
K Blick’s Studio. Photo by Alina zum Hebel.
MS: Social media and digital art are allowing artists to have autonomy over their own sales. Do you think this is changing the way artists work with galleries?
MB: It should be clear what a gallery is good at. If an artist can make sales directly from their own studio, why shouldn’t they? It’s expensive to run a business and website but everything we do is based on trying to be as fair as possible to the artists.
Thomas Hjelm’s studio. Photo by Alina zum Hebel.
MS: What’s the next step for WTF?
MB: Starting during the pandemic was a good time, strangely. There was a lot of acceptance and space to start something online but this also meant that there wasn’t really anything to look at as we were moving into a new online space. We had to problem solve as we went and find solutions as we grew. Nothing happens overnight and we’ve had to be patient. Being in London and being close to the artists is a major part of being able to do this and Instagram has been integral to our success. As for the future, we are considering moving into pop-ups and art fairs as we originally planned.
LDN 2DAY virtual show. Source Where’s The Frame website.
Thanks to Maribelle Bierens on behalf of MADE IN BED.
Mithra Stevens
Features Co-Editor, MADE IN BED